The biography of the director of the Tretyakov Gallery, Zelfira Tregulova, is interesting to many today. After all, the life path of this woman makes her admire her and be surprised at her numerous achievements. A lady with an unusual appearance is a candidate of art criticism, an authoritative specialist of international class, the head of unique projects that represent domestic art abroad. And since 2015 Tregulova Zelfira Ismailovna has taken the position of General Director of the Tretyakov Gallery. In the new role, the woman managed to prove to everyone around her her professionalism and her devotion to art.

Biography of Zelfira Tregulova

Zelfira was born on July 13, 1955 in the Latvian city of Riga. True, despite the place of birth indicated in the girl's metrics, she is not a Latvian by nationality. Perhaps her bright now is the most convincing confirmation of this. In fact, by nationality, Zelfira Tregulova is a Tatar. After all, her father is from Tatarstan, and her mother is from Kyrgyzstan. The girl's parents met in the Russian capital, where they came to enter the institute of cinematographers. After some time, the Tregulovs got a job at the Riga Film Studio and stayed there for a long time. Here their daughter was born, whom the happy parents named Zelfira.

Childhood and youth

The girl's father in those years was a military operator at the front, filming the Potsdam Conference, and her mother held the position of sound engineer. So the girl was brought up in a rather creative atmosphere. Perhaps this is what prompted her to give preference to an intelligent creative profession. After successfully graduating from school, Zelfira Tregulova entered the art history department at Lomonosov Moscow State University. The girl's parents fully supported her in her desire to become an art critic and helped her in every possible way during her studies. From an early age, the biography of the director of the Tretyakov Gallery, Zelfira Tregulova, is closely intertwined with artists and their work. In 1981, the girl graduated from the graduate school of Moscow State University.

Carier start

The professional activity of Tregulova Zelfira Ismailovna began in 1984. At this time, the girl begins work in the All-Union Art and Production Association. Here Tregulova showed her coordinating and curatorial qualities, organizing exhibitions of Russian art abroad. A little later, Zelfira was entrusted with the post of assistant to the general director of the company. Zelfira devoted 13 years of her life to this activity.

In 1993, Zelfira Ismailovna went on an overseas internship at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, located in the US capital. Returning to her homeland, in 1998 Zelfira became the head of the international relations department at Pushkin. A little later, Tregulova received an offer to become a curator of the museum, where she trained a few years ago.

Tregulova's activities

Just a few years later, Zelfira received a new appointment and took the post of general director of the Moscow Kremlin. In this position, the woman was engaged in international relations and exhibition work. Tregulova worked in the Kremlin for 11 years, after which she became the curator of the State Museum and Exhibition Association "ROSIZO".

But Zelfira Tregulova herself considers the opportunity to head one of the leading metropolitan museums, the State Tretyakov Gallery, to be a qualitatively new stage in her life. The art critic received a new promising position on February 10, 2015.

In addition to her main work in the gallery, Zelfira teaches at the Moscow School of Business, teaching gallery activities and art management. In addition, Tregulova is a member of the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation. In addition, in addition to the skills of art history and business activities, the woman is fluent in German, Italian and French.

Creative achievements

At one time, Zelfira Ismailovna showed her skills, being the curator of the largest exhibitions in the largest museums in the world. Tregulova supervised such well-known projects as the Red Army Studio, Kazimir Malevich and the Russian Avant-Garde, Surprise Me, Russia, Avant-Garde Amazons, Socialist Realisms and others. In each of her exhibitions, Zelfira demonstrates to the audience her own worldview, devoid of Soviet shackles and stereotypes. In recent years, the audience has been able to enjoy the brilliant works in the exhibitions "Palladio in Russia" and "Victor Popkov", which were also held under the guidance of a talented art critic - Zelfira Tregulova.

Behind her shoulders, a woman has not only many famous works, but also numerous creative achievements and awards. For example, Zelfira Ismailovna was awarded certificates of honor from the Ministry of Culture of the Russian Federation, the Order of the Star of Italy for holding the Year of Italian Culture, the Order of Merit in the form of a cross with a crown, and became a laureate of the Honor and Dignity of the Profession award, presented at the All-Russian festival "Intermuseum".

In the fall of 2016, Tregulova was awarded the Nikolaev gold medal. In the same year, Zelfira became a laureate of the "Statesman" award.

Unfortunately, the woman prefers to hide her private life from the press and is rather reluctant to tell stories from her personal life. But something about her family is still known.

Despite the fact that a woman from an early age wanted to have a large family and many children in the best traditions of Asian countries, her dream was not destined to come true. After all, Tregulova devoted most of her life to her own career and her beloved work. So in the marriage of Zelfira, only one child was born - a girl.

Not so long ago, Zelfira's parents moved from Riga and now live with their daughter, helping to raise their grandchildren.

The daughter of a well-known art critic in Moscow followed in the footsteps of her mother and chose the same profession. Now the girl is married and brings up two children - the youngest daughter and the eldest son. By the way, each member of the family is endowed with creative talent and good potential is visible even in Tregulova's granddaughter, who is only 2 years old.

On February 10, by decree of the Minister of Culture of the Russian Federation, Irina Lebedeva was removed from the post of director of the Tretyakov Gallery. She was replaced by Zelfira Tregulova, who until today held the post of head of the museum and exhibition association ROSIZO (the former Center for Art Exhibitions and Propaganda of Fine Arts "Rosisopropaganda"). "Lenta.ru" understood the issue after listening to various opinions of interested parties. Immediately after the news, we spoke with the chief curator of the Tretyakov Gallery, the second person in the museum, Tatyana Gorodkova, and also took a comment from the head of the Moscow Department of Culture, Sergei Kapkov, and the director of the Department of Cultural Heritage of the Ministry of Culture, Mikhail Bryzgalov.

"Lenta.ru": We learned the news about Lebedeva and wanted to clarify the reason for what happened.

I can tell you, as a witness, how it happened. At noon on February 10, Vladimir Medinsky entered the Tretyakov Gallery along with Mikhail Bryzgalov and Zelfira Tregulova. We were gathered at the Deputy Director General, and the Minister of Culture said the following verbatim: “Colleagues, I inform you that an order has been signed to dismiss the Director General. From today, the Tretyakov Gallery has a new director - Tregulova. I ask you to keep working. We will not tolerate any sabotage. If someone allows this, please apply for the table, everyone will be fired.”

Did he somehow explain his decision?

We asked to explain the reasons for the dismissal, because for us it was a complete shock. But no explanation was given. The only thing we were told was that the Tretyakov Gallery needed to be given a new impetus.

Do you somehow connect this with the process of changing the leadership of leading museums, in particular the Pushkin State Museum of Fine Arts?

I think that this is a different wave, because Irina Lebedeva has been the head of the Tretyakov Gallery only since 2009. In the summer, a five-year contract was re-signed. In the case of Irina Antonova (long-term director of the Pushkin State Museum of Fine Arts, who took the post of president of the museum, - approx. "Tapes.ru") it was a change in the age composition due to objective reasons. In this situation, everything looks different, because Zelfira Tregulova is a person of the same generation as Irina Lebedeva. It is illogical to say that an elderly director is being removed and a young and promising “manager with a new mindset” who will give a new impetus is appointed. We have not heard from the Minister of Culture any clear reasons for the change of leadership.

What do you think are the reasons for this decision?

I think this question should be asked to the Minister of Culture... The team is in a state of emotional shock. We would like to hear reasonable arguments. We know that the activities of the director of a museum (as well as of any state cultural institution) are strictly controlled by a developed system: they monitor all indicators of the museum's activities, there are criteria for evaluating the effectiveness of a leader. Every quarter we filled in these indicators: attendance, acquisition, storage, restoration, organization of exhibitions, lectures. We exceed these indicators on all counts. Evidence that the activity of the Tretyakov Gallery is highly valued is the fact that the museum both in the past and the year before received additional bonuses from the Ministry of Culture. Now I'm talking about some objective, formal indicators - an assessment of the success or failure of the museum and the person who manages it. You can compare the state of the Tretyakov Gallery five years ago and now, and much will become clear. The activities of the museum are in full view: in the media, in the museum community, and in the Russian and world cultural space. The Tretyakov Gallery is rapidly gaining momentum. Now a rather difficult period has passed, associated with the reorganization of the structure, with the alignment of the main directions of the movement of the museum.

Such a claim was voiced as the protracted construction of a new building.

You can always make some claims. I am now standing under the window in the office. Downstairs, the construction of a new building is in full swing. This is also a big and lengthy process. When Irina Lebedeva became the director, the issue of construction received a new reading. I've been thinking about the hull for a very long time. The stone, on which it is written that a new building will be erected here, has been standing for many years, but due to various circumstances, the construction was postponed. We spent quite a long time and thoughtfully reworking the internal content of the project. Then they were engaged in the re-registration of the land on which the new building was to be built. In a word, there was a normal process. He never slowed down. And now we have two huge cranes, I see a crowd of workers, and it is strange to say that construction is slowing down. She goes.

Does the team intend to do something about the change of leadership?

We understand that from a formal point of view, the Minister of Culture has the right to sign such an order. But we would very much like the consequences of this to have a public impact, so that people think about who and whom we are firing and how this happens. After all, we are talking about the fact that the general director of the State Tretyakov Gallery, the national treasury of the Russian Federation, was fired overnight. And if there were any claims, what were they expressed in? Where is at least one reprimand of the Minister of Culture? Or any other dissatisfaction with our activities? Solid thanks from everyone: France awards Lebedev with the Order of the Legion of Honor, Italy - with its state orders. She has a reputation as a brilliant world-class director. Maybe we don't understand something? But we are museum professionals, and we would like to be treated with respect and our work, and not be threatened with dismissal. The museum is our life. And it hurts when they do this to us and when they do this to the person who heads our team.

* * *

In response to a request from the department of the director of the department of cultural heritage of the Ministry of Culture, headed by Mikhail Bryzgalov, the editors of Lenta.ru received the following statement.

The fears and fears of any employee when changing the leadership of the institution are understandable. But, apparently, not everyone has an understanding of what is happening around the gallery. For example, the pace and quality of construction of the second stage cannot be judged by observations from the window. Attempts to create a “victim of power” out of the former director are not surprising, but this is beyond good and evil: there were no complaints against Irina Lebedeva as an art critic. That is why she was immediately offered job options.

But there should be no scandalous aura associated with construction, conflict with Moscow colleagues, visitors, around the Tretyakov Gallery - the largest museum and pride of the country! The Tretyakov Gallery should be a comfortable home for everyone who is related to fine art: knows it, loves it, or at least wants to learn something new. Zelfira Tregulova should cope with this task. And in solving this most difficult task, she needs to be helped, not hindered. We have no reason not to trust her as a professional of the highest class and a decent person.

* * *

We asked Sergei Kapkov, Head of the Moscow Department of Culture, to comment on the above.

"Lenta.ru": The Ministry of Culture says that one of the reasons for the dismissal of Irina Lebedeva is the lowering of the attendance bar for the Tretyakov Gallery. What is the essence of your conflict with the former director Irina Lebedeva?

As you know, the new building of the Tretyakov Gallery is located on the territory of the Muzeon on Krymskaya Embankment. This place has become a great art object. The whole of last year, especially the summer season, was devoted to this topic - people walk there, festivals are held, and various other actions are held. Muzeon is a street sculpture park. And we have many times proposed to the leadership of the State Tretyakov Gallery to open their yard, to hold joint concerts, to extend the work of the museum, so that the regulars of Gorky Park would also become visitors to the Tretyakov Gallery. And for the reverse process to take place. We wanted the various creative workshops, plein-airs that work inside the Tretyakov Gallery to be able to enter the park. But they did not find any support from the museum management. On the contrary, they received complaints addressed to Dmitry Medvedev and Deputy Prime Minister Olga Golodets about the actions of the city authorities. Say, we will paralyze the work of the Tretyakov Gallery, a pedestrian zone has been made from the Crimean embankment, etc. Well, that is, interaction with the State Tretyakov Gallery was hampered at all levels. That's how we were.

The former director worked for a long time in the Tretyakov Gallery, and the new one is a person from the outside, this causes bewilderment among the team ...

Why does a person have to be inside? Zelfira Tregulova, a well-known person in the museum environment, whom I dragged, so to speak, to work, offered to head ROSIZO. She made several great exhibitions during the year, in the same Manezh, so I think her appointment is completely justified - she is a great professional, a well-known person in the museum environment. The new head of the gallery is a very systematic, non-conflict person, a person who can build relationships with the city authorities. This is important for the Tretyakov Gallery, they are building a new building. Zelfira will be able to restore the former glory of the so-called new building, because it is located on a strategic route between Gorky Park with the Garage Museum of Contemporary Art and the classical building of the Tretyakov Gallery. We plan that it will be a large museum quarter. We were unable to reach an agreement with the previous leadership of the State Tretyakov Gallery in order to get things off the ground. The previous leadership ignored all the initiatives of the city.

At the end of the New Year holidays, the director of the Tretyakov Gallery, Zelfira Tregulova, got into the center of a scandal: Aeroflot canceled flights from New York, and the Russian art critic got stuck in a foreign land. According to source, the woman was very angry and promised the airline a scolding from the government.

What is interesting about this story is not even that it refused to wait for the flight- which was delayed due to heavy snowfall! - along with other passengers. Such behavior for Russian leaders, unfortunately, is quite common. At one time, because of this, the favorite of the public, Leonid Yakubovich, and many others scandalized. But the fact that she threatened Aeroflot with a "call from the government" is an almost unique phenomenon. And again, it is not the fact of threats that is important, but the fact that, as it turned out, she really has a "roof" in the government.

Medinsky's "trusted manager"?

Ms. Tregulova, before heading one of the main museum complexes in the country, served as the general director of the ROSIZO museum and exhibition center from 2013 to 2015. What can be done in such a position in two years? Yes, a lot! For example, to hire the sister of the Minister of Culture of the Russian Federation Vladimir Medinsky ...

Tatyana Medinskaya came to the position of Tregulova's deputy in December 2014. At the same time, according to media reports, the minister's sister earned much more than the head of the organization- apparently, the education of a financier was useful.

Was there a conflict of interest in this appointment? Still, ROSIZO is subordinate to the Ministry of Culture. And after the appointment of Tatyana Medinskaya, the National Center for Contemporary Art (NCCA) suddenly "merged" into the center. Moreover, according to rumors, "joined" by force. At the same time, ROSIZO - probably not without the help of Tregulova and Medinsky - actively worked on joint projects with Medinsky's favorite brainchild, the Russian Military Historical Society.

But the minister, of course, was the last to know about the appointment of his sister - these are his own words. And this despite the fact that the fact of Medinsky's work in ROSIZO was revealed a few months later, and until that time no one had said a word about it.
Maybe this is how Tregulova earned herself the post of general director of the Tretyakov Gallery? Assisting the Minister of Culture is a very profitable business. And, apparently, it does not remain unpaid. But Zelfira Ismailovna did not limit herself to one minister - apparently, she decided to play it safe?

Hungry for work?

Tregulova moved to the Tretyakov Gallery, most likely, precisely under the patronage of Mr. Medinsky - without a minister, such appointments are unlikely to occur. But in a new place, she found another outlet for the government. How else to explain the fact that her deputy turned out to be the daughter of Deputy Prime Minister Olga Golodets?

One can, of course, assume that Tatyana Mrdulyash worked honestly and deserved this place. Or did Tregulova in her new position act according to the old, well-established scheme with the provision of jobs to the "necessary" people.

It’s just that she uses the existing connections too small - instead of threatening the airline, she could ask for half her kingdom. It's like throwing a goldfish into a frying pan.

As a result, the situation with Tregulova and Aeroflot casts a shadow on Mrs. Golodets, who, in theory, was supposed to stand up for her daughter's employer. However, there are already so many of these “shadows” that the Deputy Prime Minister will definitely not become “darker” from this ...

Past accomplishments?

Golodets has been deputy prime minister for almost seven years now. But she began to stand out, barely finishing with academic science and moving into the business sphere. So, after she joined the Reformugol company, which was engaged in the reorganization of mines, more than 50 cuts in Kuzbass alone were closed, and hungry miners went to block the Trans-Siberian Railway. The company was financed, by the way, by the World Bank - that is, from the USA.

The full "Golodets" Madame Deputy Prime Minister, however, in principle prefers to arrange for money, and best of all - from abroad. If earlier she at least worked for the notorious Alexander Khloponin and Mikhail Prokhorov - and took the eponymous NPF from Norilsk Nickel! - then after, according to some reports, she finally switched to abroad.

For example, in 2013, Golodets announced the resignation of the head of Rospotrebnadzor, Gennady Onishchenko, at a time when the prime minister, who was supposed to fire the official, knew nothing about it. At the same time, it is worth paying attention to the fact that Onishchenko was considered an "enemy" of Petro Poroshenko even when he was just a modest head of the Roshen confectionery factory. And an attempt to initiate the resignation of the head of Rospotrebnadzor could well have been made by Golodets in the interests of the Ukrainian oligarch...
Naturally, a true lady should not help at her own expense. And, for example, at the expense of ordinary people - yes, the same pensioners! So, apparently, decided Olga Yurievna. And it's not even about NPF Norilsk Nickel, but about all the pension savings of Russians.
The funded part of pensions in Russia has been frozen for four years now. And few people remember that it was Golodets who initiated the freeze - at the very beginning of her career in government! Did her dream come true?

Where does she end up spending her money? To protect the USE from hacker attacks that never happened? To design school classrooms in the form of a circle, not a square? Actually, to the "ripping" of the Russian Academy of Sciences, which she accomplished together with the ex-Minister of Education Dmitry Livanov and is now finishing without him?

And if Livanov is no longer in the government, then the head of the Ministry of Health, Veronika Skvortsova, who was also suspected of "unhealthy" ties with Golodets, is still in place. According to rumors, these enterprising persons quite easily managed to get money from tenders for medical services and the supply of drugs. And, perhaps, just as easily divided them among themselves. And since science and medicine in the country, in general, are finished, as well as with pensions, Olga Yuryevna has no choice but to switch to culture. Fortunately, there is a “mishandled Cossack” in the form of a daughter, and Minister Medinsky, if anything, can be easily directed on the true path ... In general, Mrs. Golodets has a lot of worries. The main thing is not to choke.

13.02.2015 22283

Zelfira Tregulova: "A museum, like a theater, begins with a hanger"

On February 10, 2015, it was announced that the head of ROSIZO, Zelfira Tregulova, became the director of the State Tretyakov Gallery, replacing Irina Lebedeva, who was dismissed from the State Tretyakov Gallery with the wording "at the initiative of the employer." Ekaterina Allenova hurried to ask the new director about the exhibition policy, effective management, the ideal of a museum director and how to attract visitors to the museum.

Zelfira Tregulova. Photo: Sergey Futerman

Ekaterina Allenova: In an interview with TASS, which you gave immediately after your appointment, you, in particular, noticed that the Tretyakov Gallery "there is an opportunity to make it even more attractive and comfortable for visitors." This phrase almost literally coincided with the wording of the Department of Cultural Heritage of the Ministry of Culture, explaining the reasons for the dismissal of Irina Lebedeva: “A comfortable environment for visitors has not been created in the Tretyakov Gallery - there are no cafes, shops, no Wi-Fi.” You may get the impression that you already knew the motives and arguments of the ministry. Although I understand that you will not discuss them.

Zelfira Tregulova: You are right, I do not consider it possible to discuss this. But I can say that the offer to take this position was quite unexpected for me. And already after I gave this interview, I sat down to read ministerial papers at night and was amazed to find this coincidence of wording. But you probably noticed that I spoke about general issues and did not suggest any specific steps. Because the first thing I have to do is to very carefully delve into the essence of the matter and form my own opinion: either to establish myself in it, or to correct it.

E.A.: The Ministry of Culture has been reproached many times for looking for “effective managers” rather than scientists who can raise the scientific and exhibition activities of museums to a high level. You are known primarily as a curator - you make extremely successful exhibitions, develop their concepts (although you don’t like this word), but it suddenly turns out that in your first speech as director of the State Tretyakov Gallery you are talking not about exhibition programs and not about science, but - in unison with the ministry - about the need to make the Tretyakov Gallery more attractive and "comfortable" ... And how are you going to do this?

Z.T.: You can attract visitors to the museum in a variety of ways, including exhibitions. And I pay tribute to what the Tretyakov Gallery has done and is doing in this regard, as well as in terms of science - for example, the publication of the collection catalog, which is carried out at a very high level, or the recent exhibitions of Natalia Goncharova and the Costakis collection. I will not go into details now, but I will say that the exhibition program planned for the future looks strong. And this is very important: we really need exhibition projects that will attract viewers. For me, the problem of the Tretyakov Gallery on Krymsky Val is acute, where the art of the 20th century is exhibited - the period in which I work as an art critic. Every time I get there, I see a huge empty lobby and barely twenty coats on hangers - this is if there is no exhibition like Levitan or Korovin. At the same time, I must pay tribute to Irina Vladimirovna Lebedeva: when the exhibitions of Goncharova and the collections of Kostaki were conceived, there was no certainty that spectators would come to them. There is a serious column in the museum reporting, where there are museum attendance figures. Attendance is a critical category in evaluating the performance of any leader. And just these two exhibitions showed that people finally began to come to exhibitions of the Russian avant-garde, which was not the case before. Let's remember the great exhibition "Great Utopia". Irina Vladimirovna and I met just on this project: she was a curator from the Tretyakov Gallery, and I was the coordinator of the entire project from the organization in which I worked then. (The exhibition "The Great Utopia. Russian Avant-Garde 1915-1932" was shown in 1992-1994 in Frankfurt am Main, Amsterdam, New York and Moscow, but the Moscow exposition, unlike foreign ones, did not include works from Western collections. — Artguide.) The exhibition in Moscow was beautifully done, even without Western things, but the halls were empty. The halls were empty at the Tatlin exhibition, empty at other very serious from a conceptual point of view projects of the 1990s, which opened up new names. Now the situation has changed, and this can only be rejoiced at.

That is why, while paying tribute to what has been done in the Tretyakov Gallery to date, including these exhibitions, I cannot say that “here I will come and radically change everything.” Moreover, the exhibition plan of the Tretyakov Gallery, as you understand, is drawn up two years ahead, and it is quite worthy, there are serious projects there. The Tretyakov Gallery is such an incredible, symbolic place, and the position of its director is so responsible that I will try to be extremely careful and accurate. Which does not mean at all that I will not do my favorite thing - to make exhibitions. This is what gives me an incredible feeling of euphoria and delight - when the exhibition is done the way it was intended. If you look at what has been done at ROSIZO over the past year and a half, I cannot say that I acted primarily as a manager. I acted primarily as an "exhibitor" and as a person who, with the help of colleagues, tried to introduce some kind of system into this organization. People began to write scientific articles. This organization from a pure operator (despite the fact that it has more than 40 thousand units of storage) began to turn into a content creator. And that was my task. I saw that my predecessors prioritized management and the work of the operator, losing sight of the fact that if you do not create content, you will always remain maintenance personnel. When you create exhibitions, this is a completely different situation, and they begin to treat the organization in a completely different way. Therefore, of course, I will continue to do this, although I am afraid that in the first place I will still have to be a manager.

And here there is one direction in exhibition work, in which it is possible to infiltrate, to do something in the foreseeable future, these are international contacts: exhibitions in which the Tretyakov Gallery participates abroad and which it sends abroad, and it seems to me that the Tretyakov Gallery is interested in to bring exhibitions from abroad.

Е.А.: Exhibitions of foreign art? But the Tretyakov Gallery is a museum of Russian art.

ZT: I am of the opinion that if there is an opportunity to make an interesting exhibition project, then one should not be limited to the specifics of the collection. I guess I learned this from the Guggenheim Museum, which was criticized for making exhibitions of everything and everywhere - from Africa to Russia. But it was these exhibitions that made the Guggenheim a reputation as a museum with amazing, incredible and very daring exhibition programs.

E.A.: And yet, about the notorious “comfort zone”. Since your appointment turned out to be a bolt from the blue and everyone eagerly rushed to discuss it and look for the reasons why Irina Lebedeva fell into disgrace, a parallel arose by itself with the relatively recent appointment to the post of director of the Pushkin Museum im. A.S. Pushkin Marina Loshak. After all, the idea is based on the same “comfortable environment”, where, as Marina Devovna says, it will be possible to walk, hang out almost around the clock, where there will be shops, cafes, cinemas. And one of the arguments of the Ministry of Culture when Lebedeva was fired is precisely that she could not become the “effective manager” who, probably, should have turned the Tretyakov Gallery into an amusement park. The Ministry of Culture is close to the idea that visitors should be attracted to the museum in these ways. Do you agree with this?

Z.T.: With the "amusement park", of course, I do not agree. If you put this at the forefront, then there is not much difference - it is a museum or an entertainment center. I think that when Marina Loshak was appointed director of the Pushkin Museum, the logic was somewhat different, and I doubt that cafes and shops played a decisive role here. If we talk about the Pushkin Museum, then, indeed, the entrance area has changed there, the wardrobe has been reconstructed, the cafes have changed. It has become much more pleasant to go there, and the process of buying a ticket and getting information now takes 2-3 minutes. And, to the credit of Marina Devovna, it must be said that she did not only do this. Very interesting exhibition projects have been made - for example, I really liked the Wim Delvoye exhibition, which correctly included the works of this contemporary artist in the museum's exposition, in particular, in the hall of casts. What could be more archaic than casts? Marina creates a dialogue between the art of the 20th century and classical art, but at the same time she perfectly understands that a museum, like a theater, begins with a hanger. In the old building of the Moscow Art Theater, everything is aesthetically decorated - from the door handle to the hanger. I am sure that this is how it should be in a modern museum. And if you attract the viewer to the museum, where he came for aesthetic impressions, then aesthetics should begin from the moment he crosses the threshold. Plus a cafe, plus the ability to quickly connect to the Internet and plan your actions or exchange impressions with virtual friends - all this will give the visitor a reason to linger in the museum building. I go to Pushkinsky with my eldest daughter when there are several exhibitions, and we spend 4-5 hours there. You look at one or two exhibitions - and you need to get distracted, switch, have a bite to eat. And then with a purified consciousness to go further. Of course, this should not be put at the forefront, but it should not be underestimated either.

E.A.: Nevertheless, when I asked you how you are going to lure the viewer to the museum, you enthusiastically began to talk about exhibitions, and not about cafes with free Internet.

Z.T.: It is necessary to lure both of them, in a complex.

E.A.: As a director, you will have to deal with construction, with restoration, with weak currents, security systems, rusty pipes, caretakers uniforms ...

Z.T.:…and with the way they behave, yes. In the Tretyakov Gallery there was a very unpleasant incident with a teacher - then, it seems to me, both sides acted incorrectly. (In October 2014, art teacher Pavel Shevelev was taken out of the halls of the Tretyakov Gallery by police called by the caretaker, accusing him of conducting an “illegal excursion” with his students. - Artguide) These are serious and painful topics for which there can be no unambiguous solution . The question of what is the function of the caretaker, how he should look, how he should behave and how he should be dressed is also an important question.

Е.А.: Will you cope with all this? Are you not afraid?

ZT: I would be wrong if I said that I am not afraid. The more experienced you become, the better you understand the complexity of any task that you face.

E.A.: Before Irina Lebedeva, the post of director of the State Tretyakov Gallery was held by Valentin Rodionov, and I know that he was often reproached for not understanding anything in art - just a “strong business executive”, but versed in construction and water pipes. But under him, Lidia Ivanovna Iovleva was deputy for science ...

Z.T.: Let me say, with all due respect to Rodionov, that the director of a museum should be a person who understands what a museum is. It is impossible to separate functions: here I am a business executive, and my deputy is an art critic. I believe that it is possible to combine the most effective management with the deepest knowledge in the history of art.

E.A.: Do you see yourself in this capacity? Or can you give examples of specific directors?

Z.T.: I now have a real example before my eyes - this is the director of the Städel Institute in Frankfurt am Main, Max Hollein, the son of the great architect Hans Hollein. He is also director of several other museums that make up this institute, and director of the Schirn Kunsthalle, an absolutely incredible exhibition hall. He received an excellent education, specialized in Western European medieval art, then worked as the right hand of Thomas Krens at the Guggenheim Museum for five years, and then became director of the Schirn Kunsthalle, which he received in a state of complete ruin and with a monstrous financial debt. Hollein immediately set to work reorganizing everything and creating the most interesting exhibitions. In 2001, he invited me and Boris Groys to become the curators of the exhibition “Communism – Dream Factory”, which was quite a bold decision then, especially for a specialist in medieval art. When he came to Moscow in connection with this exhibition, he lived in a hotel in a room for $ 70, and all night long he was disturbed from sleeping by intrusive calls. And he put up with it, because the organization had a terrible budget deficit, and he saved on everything, including himself. Now he is one of the most brilliant directors in Europe - and in the world, I think. He leads the "Biso Group", a community of directors of the world's largest museums and participants in the international exhibition process. They meet every year or every two years. From Russia there were Mikhail Piotrovsky and Irina Antonova, now they are Piotrovsky, Marina Loshak and Elena Gagarina. Hollein is a terrific piece to look at. I worked with him a lot when he was still working at the Guggenheim Museum. He is very successful, including with fundraising.

Е.А.: How do you feel about fundraising?

Z.T.: I am extremely positive about the search for sponsorship funds. When I worked at the Kremlin Museums, around 2004 it became clear that if you have interesting exhibition projects, it is much more efficient not to spend budget money, but to offer to support these projects to a reputable company. Form a circle of friends and get very serious money. Now, faced with what it means to receive state funding, I understand perfectly well that intuitively (and perhaps not intuitively) we then chose the right path: from 2006 to the present, the Kremlin Museums have not spent a penny of budget money on exhibitions, which were made in the museum itself, including the most expensive ones. I know from experience that if you propose a very interesting project that will certainly be successful (there are such projects, they can be identified), then it is easier to get serious money for it than a smaller amount, but for a more modest project. It depends on the content, on what you do. It's not about the stamps - the Tretyakov Gallery, the Kremlin Museums, the Hermitage, the Russian Museum - it's about what you offer.

E.A.: On the other hand, in any museum, any curator will tell you that he has wonderful treasures in his funds, with which one could make an interesting exhibition, publish the results of valuable research in its catalog, and so on. And this is indeed the case most of the time. Only this exhibition is of interest only to ten specialists, it has a purely scientific value, it is non-commercial and people will not go to it. What to do with such exhibitions?

Z.T.: Conduct.

E.A.: And where to get the money?

Z.T.: It's a difficult question. It is really much more difficult to get them for such a project. However, there is still such a tool as the media. I don't say "advertising" because it's pointless to advertise such exhibitions - that's the first thing. Secondly, now, in a situation of a serious limitation of funds, much less money will be allocated for advertising in the budgets. I think that there is a serious reserve here - work with the media, very detailed, very thorough, individual. I have always been for this kind of work, and this is how we worked with the media at the Kremlin Museums. And the result has always been great. Advertising costs, compared to the budget of the exhibition itself, have always been very small, and there were many people who came and the reviews were excellent. Here you just need not to be lazy and carefully work on it. By the way, the Tretyakov Gallery holds such exhibitions, they have a whole program of such exhibitions and publications

E.A.: “The Tretyakov Gallery opens its storerooms”?

Z.T.: Yes Yes. There are really serious employees who make interesting exhibitions from storerooms.

E.A.: What do you like in the collection of the Tretyakov Gallery and would like to show Russia and the world first of all? And in what context?

Z.T.: The question is difficult. You will laugh: I love everything! Yesterday I walked through several halls in Lavrushinsky, where the 18th century is - Nikitin, Antropov, Levitsky and so on ... It's wonderful.

E.A.: What's so great about Nikitin? Please explain to the world community.

Z.T.: I'm not talking about showing the artist Nikitin to the world community, although "Portrait of Chancellor Golovkin" was shown at the Russia! exhibition, and I must say, he looked great there! I think that I will be ready to answer the question about the new exhibition plans after some time, not very long. I know about many projects that are now being organized in Europe, in which the Tretyakov Gallery will participate and in which it cannot but participate, since these are exhibitions in iconic places dedicated to very important moments in the history of Russian art and national history. This is, for example, an exhibition dedicated to the exhibition "0.10", which will be held at the Beyeler Foundation in Basel and where for the first time all the things that were at that exhibition are collected.

E.A .: (sighing) Again "Black Square" ...

Z.T.: Well, he was the main exhibit at the 0.10 exhibition, so you can’t do without him! But in Basel there will be the "Black Square" of 1929... I know about this exhibition because ROSIZO collects for it about 20 works from 14 Russian regional museums. The same works that participated in the exhibition "0.10". And I think this is the most important project. And I would like to note that this exhibition is being organized in Basel, not in Moscow, although, probably, it should have been held in Russia. Or in 2017 in London, at the Royal Academy, an exhibition related to a very important year for everyone in 1917 should be held. It will showcase art from 1917 to 1932, and it's actually quite an interesting idea, and it's not like an exhibition like The Great Utopia. It seems to me that this is also a project in which it is necessary to participate. However, this decision was made by Irina Vladimirovna Lebedeva. I can only contribute to the realization of both.

E.A.: There were rumors that after your departure, ROSIZO would be disbanded.

Z.T.: Oh god, what nonsense! No one is going to disband it! Many international projects are planned there, in which the Tretyakov Gallery also participates, and I am going to work closely with ROSIZO. Moreover, now ROSIZO has new functions - it is not only an operator of exhibition projects, but also an operator of large projects related to the presentation of Russian art on the Internet. One of them is a virtual reconstruction of the State Museum of New Western Art. And the second - 37 virtual museums for placement on the culture.rf portal. We are talking about Russian regional museums, many of which do not even have a normal website, although they have wonderful collections. This is indeed a very large-scale project, and incredible work has been done there. A crazy amount of shooting was done, including in 3D, aerial photography and aerial filming were used. In London in September of this year, the Science Museum opens a huge exhibition “Cosmonauts. The Birth of the Space Age”, which was prepared by ROSIZO, and I managed to sign all the contracts by the end of January and am going to continue to communicate with colleagues from ROSIZO who are working on this project outside of working hours. And then it will be seen. The number of exhibition projects scheduled for this year is less than last year, for obvious reasons: difficulties with financing and very big difficulties in finding sponsorship money.

E.A.: It was the Ministry of Culture that reproached Lebedeva for "planning to reduce attendance by 15%." But, in my opinion, this reduction is inevitable precisely because there is less money, and, accordingly, fewer people in museums.

Z.T.: You know what is now introduced in federal museums. I don’t know the statistics yet, but I can assume that this will increase attendance, but it will obviously reduce the extra-budgetary income of the Tretyakov Gallery, as, indeed, of any other museum where this has been introduced. And we need to work on this too.